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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America by Cristina Page (2006)</title>
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	<link>http://www.easyvegan.info/2009/06/16/book-review-how-the-pro-choice-movement-saved-america-by-cristina-page-2006/</link>
	<description>Heathen. Vegan. Feminist.</description>
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		<title>By: Kelly G.</title>
		<link>http://www.easyvegan.info/2009/06/16/book-review-how-the-pro-choice-movement-saved-america-by-cristina-page-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-782562</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.easyvegan.info/?p=7514#comment-782562</guid>
		<description>Kim - Fetuses are not sentient until &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/fetal_pain.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;at least&lt;/a&gt; the 25th week of pregnancy, so if you&#039;re going to base your pro-life views on something other than religion and ensoulment, such as sentience, then you&#039;ll have to allow abortion at least up until that point. (And I should add that, if contraception were widely available, and abortions, cheap, legal and easy to obtain, then abortions after this point would be extremely rare - hell, they already are uncommon - and mostly limited to medically necessary abortions.)

Regardless, pregnancy involves a unique clash of rights where you have one being&#039;s &quot;right to life&quot; conflicting with another being&#039;s right to bodily autonomy. No (post-born) beings, child or adult, are allowed to commandeer another (post-born) human&#039;s body without his or her consent (e.g., parents are not legally required to donate blood or a kidney to a child in need, even if the child is their own). Why should pregnant women have fewer rights than the rest of humanity?

No such clash of right exists in the human exploitation of animals, so being an animal abolitionist is not contrary to being pro-choice. If a non-human animal was capable of choosing and inducing an abortion, I&#039;d support that animal&#039;s right to do so as well. No one should be forced to give their body over to another being, no matter what &quot;irresponsible&quot; decisions you think they made.

Finally, the simplest way to reduce abortion is to reduce the need for it - by preventing unwanted pregnancies. I&#039;m very pro-contraception, pro-sex ed, etc. as well. Whether you consider it murder or not, abortion is an unpleasant medical procedure, one that&#039;s best avoided to begin with.

I&#039;ve been working on a post comparing the animal rights and pro-life movements, and it involves a much longer discussion on this subject - so if you&#039;re a regular reader, please keep an eye out for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim &#8211; Fetuses are not sentient until <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/fetal_pain.php" rel="nofollow">at least</a> the 25th week of pregnancy, so if you&#8217;re going to base your pro-life views on something other than religion and ensoulment, such as sentience, then you&#8217;ll have to allow abortion at least up until that point. (And I should add that, if contraception were widely available, and abortions, cheap, legal and easy to obtain, then abortions after this point would be extremely rare &#8211; hell, they already are uncommon &#8211; and mostly limited to medically necessary abortions.)</p>
<p>Regardless, pregnancy involves a unique clash of rights where you have one being&#8217;s &#8220;right to life&#8221; conflicting with another being&#8217;s right to bodily autonomy. No (post-born) beings, child or adult, are allowed to commandeer another (post-born) human&#8217;s body without his or her consent (e.g., parents are not legally required to donate blood or a kidney to a child in need, even if the child is their own). Why should pregnant women have fewer rights than the rest of humanity?</p>
<p>No such clash of right exists in the human exploitation of animals, so being an animal abolitionist is not contrary to being pro-choice. If a non-human animal was capable of choosing and inducing an abortion, I&#8217;d support that animal&#8217;s right to do so as well. No one should be forced to give their body over to another being, no matter what &#8220;irresponsible&#8221; decisions you think they made.</p>
<p>Finally, the simplest way to reduce abortion is to reduce the need for it &#8211; by preventing unwanted pregnancies. I&#8217;m very pro-contraception, pro-sex ed, etc. as well. Whether you consider it murder or not, abortion is an unpleasant medical procedure, one that&#8217;s best avoided to begin with.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been working on a post comparing the animal rights and pro-life movements, and it involves a much longer discussion on this subject &#8211; so if you&#8217;re a regular reader, please keep an eye out for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.easyvegan.info/2009/06/16/book-review-how-the-pro-choice-movement-saved-america-by-cristina-page-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-782543</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.easyvegan.info/?p=7514#comment-782543</guid>
		<description>Both my brother and I were adopted, so i guess you could say we have every right in the world to proclaim that being &#039;Pro-Life&#039; is the ONLY correct &#039;choice&#039;.  We didn&#039;t ask to be brought into this world, but mercifully, we were.  We were brought into this world because our biological parents (we are not biological siblings) made DIFFICULT yet RESPONSIBLE CHOICES to seek out loving couples who were unable to conceive so that we may have a chance to become part of their family and grow up in a loving environment.

Though unwanted and unplanned, which is the painful truth we&#039;ve had to live with, we were not regarded enough as &#039;mistakes&#039; and &#039;inconveniences&#039; in order to warrant our mutilation and massacre in our mother&#039;s wombs. 

Our mothers made a very unselfish and very merciful choice to bring us to full-term and then seek out agencies who would take care of us and find loving homes for us.

I know that is not always the case for many kids, but it sure beats being sucked into a vacuum or given a saline bath until we shrivel up.

Anyone who claims to be pro-animal rights and pro-animal this and that is a total hypocrite by not decrying abortion.

Regardless of whether or not the child was conceived as a &#039;product of rape&#039;, a one-night stand between two drunken douchebags or anything in-between is no excuse whatsoever to murder an unborn child.

That baby did not choose to be conceived and his/her innocence AND sentience should trump ANY ideology or rhetoric purveyed as &#039;rights&#039;.

If you can&#039;t take care of the child, fine, but my God, please choose kindness and mercy and give it a fighting-chance by allowing it to be born.

It simply makes no sense whatsoever to be &#039;Pro-Animal Rights&#039; AND &#039;Pro-It&#039;s My Body, My Lifestyle, My Freedom and My &#039;Life-Plans To Think Of First And Foremost So Therefore I&#039;ll Abort Whatever I Don&#039;t Want&#039;.  No matter how you slice it, it&#039;s still murder, just as using animals for the purposes of human beings is wrong, plain and simple.

Peace and God bless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both my brother and I were adopted, so i guess you could say we have every right in the world to proclaim that being &#8216;Pro-Life&#8217; is the ONLY correct &#8216;choice&#8217;.  We didn&#8217;t ask to be brought into this world, but mercifully, we were.  We were brought into this world because our biological parents (we are not biological siblings) made DIFFICULT yet RESPONSIBLE CHOICES to seek out loving couples who were unable to conceive so that we may have a chance to become part of their family and grow up in a loving environment.</p>
<p>Though unwanted and unplanned, which is the painful truth we&#8217;ve had to live with, we were not regarded enough as &#8216;mistakes&#8217; and &#8216;inconveniences&#8217; in order to warrant our mutilation and massacre in our mother&#8217;s wombs. </p>
<p>Our mothers made a very unselfish and very merciful choice to bring us to full-term and then seek out agencies who would take care of us and find loving homes for us.</p>
<p>I know that is not always the case for many kids, but it sure beats being sucked into a vacuum or given a saline bath until we shrivel up.</p>
<p>Anyone who claims to be pro-animal rights and pro-animal this and that is a total hypocrite by not decrying abortion.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether or not the child was conceived as a &#8216;product of rape&#8217;, a one-night stand between two drunken douchebags or anything in-between is no excuse whatsoever to murder an unborn child.</p>
<p>That baby did not choose to be conceived and his/her innocence AND sentience should trump ANY ideology or rhetoric purveyed as &#8216;rights&#8217;.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t take care of the child, fine, but my God, please choose kindness and mercy and give it a fighting-chance by allowing it to be born.</p>
<p>It simply makes no sense whatsoever to be &#8216;Pro-Animal Rights&#8217; AND &#8216;Pro-It&#8217;s My Body, My Lifestyle, My Freedom and My &#8216;Life-Plans To Think Of First And Foremost So Therefore I&#8217;ll Abort Whatever I Don&#8217;t Want&#8217;.  No matter how you slice it, it&#8217;s still murder, just as using animals for the purposes of human beings is wrong, plain and simple.</p>
<p>Peace and God bless.</p>
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